Comments on: Economics and Environmental Costs

By: guesswho

guesswho — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:34:45 +0000

Patagonia, the theory of Bookchin you mention seems quite interesting. Could you give an exemple of this link between social problems and environmental problems ?

By: patagonia

patagonia — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:37:43 +0000

It was a wonderful lecture and I definately think you did it justice. I was also pleasently surprised by the way Speth acknowledged and stressed the interconnected issues of social environment and social well being with the shift towards an environmental politic and economy. This reminds me of social ecology theory founded by Murry Bookchin; this theory is based on the concept that nearly all of our present ecological problems originate in deep-seated social problems. This view would therefore express that these ecological problems cannot be understood, let alone solved, without a careful understanding of our existing society and the irrationality or paradox that dominate it; man inevitable influences nature and is inherently dependant on nature.
I attened both the seminars, ecologically sustainable golf courses and Speth’s Beatty lecture. There is a link between these two seminar’s. Speth spoke of the need to break away from traditional modes of environmental change (those working within the worldwide market economy system) because it is fundamental change to that system itself that is needed to allow for real environmentally and socially sustainable and just survival on earth. The seminar on ecologically managed golf courses represents seeking enviornmental change within the current world market economy. Therefore, according to Speth, though a good idea that is still definately valuable and needed, ecological golf coure managment does not represent the future of the environmental movement.

By: supernova

supernova — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 02:55:57 +0000

I just want to present an interesting side sujet to Speth’s presentation (i attended as well). He said that GDP was merely a growth mesurement of economy. In fact, it’s a mesurement of how money transfers from one point to another. I basically means that anywhere money is spend, GDP will grow. Many other indicators exist but the one i prefer remains the europeen ISEW, which is Index of Sustainable Welfare. This index incorporate various cost to the traditional GDP in order to assess the real progress of the economy. The GPI (Genuine Progress Indicator) is derived from the ISEW and it’s used in the USA since 1995. That index includes a value for durable product, free work and tehnology improvement. What is interesting we is that if look at those «corrected» index we clearly see a slowing economy (see figures on this website http://community.foe.co.uk/tools/isew/international.html). Maybe the first step towards changing this unfriendly economy towards environnement could be the usage of these index.