Comments on: Where environment, society and economy collide

By: shorty

shorty — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 01:43:18 +0000

In response to CO’s analogy I think it still would be hard to go against capitalism. If the train represents capitalism and the track is the path we are headed on, we might argue that the capitalism train is only suited to one type of track. If we had a limited extent to which we could build track we would need to rip up that original rail and start near the beginning to prevent it from careening off that cliff. But if the train’s been going for a while and has passed by a considerable amount of that track its too late to rebuild what its already passed by. Capitalism is bounded by its own ideology and would have a limited amount of overlap with other ideologies. The effects capitalism has already had cannot be reversed so we would need to change the ideologies ahead of it in order for it to change course. And we might argue that capitalism has been a major western view, running for a very long time.

I would however encourage you to correct me if I have mistaken your analogy.

By: guesswho

guesswho — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:29:38 +0000

I didn’t attempt this seminary, so I would like to have your point of view on a little question. Accordind to your post, it seems that Speth is hoping for a revolution of capitalism’s values, or at least that he is expecting for a major change in society’s behaviour. Do you feel he was adressing his message to the right crowd ?

By: patagonia

patagonia — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:21:51 +0000

I attended this lecture as well and really enjoy the way you raised the issue of how different people (with differnent backgourns, experiences, ages) will react to Speth’s ideas very differently. Just one thing extra; when Speth spoke of a the spark that will initiate real fundamental change of the current economic system, he said it was a cris or eminent crisis that was needed. I think this is an important difference, reaction to an eminent crisis means that Speth believes that it is possible for humans to avoid some catastrophic, most likely environmental and climatic disaster. But when will we decide that ‘yes, we are convinced that environmental collapse is eminent if we stay the course.’ For me and many people I have chosen to surround myself with in life, this idea was accepted as truth long ago. But what will it take for that disapproving man at Speth’s lecture, or stock traders on wallstreet, or families living in poverty that have little time or resources to worry about environment, or governments worldwide to come around to the idea?

By: thecynicaloptimist

thecynicaloptimist — Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:16:09 +0000

Thank you for sharing your passion about doing the right thing supernova.

If I may challenge one idea you shared… 🙂

You said: “Going against capitalism is going to be a hard journey.”

Is that the journey we are on? Let me use an analogy to elaborate:

If a train is on a track that leads off of a cliff, does that mean we should be against trains? Or does that mean we should build a new track?

-CO